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Forces Reunited - Scrap Harrier, Great Idea!
www.forcesreunited.org.uk >> General >> Hot Topic >> Scrap Harrier, Great Idea!
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Colin Hall
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It’s important to separate the Defence Head Shed from the Ministry, because they are not the same thing. The MoD tends to quietly but publicly stuff things up, while over at the Head Shed the Defence chiefs pull their hair out in despair.

I’ve been there, done that and the MoD, and government bureaucracy for that matter and not just in the UK, seems incapable of cogent thought and action. So often they are directed at what Defence requires, and take far too long and at too high a cost to get it right. I can’t think of a single project that has achieved that aim, and mostly they cost two or three times the original budget and end up years behind schedule.

Nimrod has been mentioned and is a prime example. A more capable aircraft, operated by many overseas air forces was always available from Day One of the Nimrod development, but they spent billions on it to prove it was allegedly better than the universal Lockheed Orion. It wasn’t! The Orion continues is service, and the Nimrod is no more.

But wait, there’s more.! The RAF wants to maintain its Maritime Patrol skills, which are perishable; if you don’t practice them you lose them! So they are seconding MPA aircrew to allied air forces in a project called "Operation Seedcorn" where RAF aircrew are seconded for three years to places like New Zealand and Australia and Canada, and the US Navy, all of whom operate...wait for it...the Orion, which was in service before they started the Nimrod!

Now Seedcorn will last about five years, and if the UK MoD can produce a new MPA in that time it will be an event similar to the second coming!

It’s a bit weird, but both NZ and Australia, now have a greater Maritime Patrol capability than the RAF, which has nothing!
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25/03/2012 20:40:50
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Colin Davies
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I’ll agree with most of that Colin, however, the RAF does still possess a Maritime capability in the E3d Sentry which has partaken in SAR OPs, it has not the ASW capabilities of NIMROD MR, but has a very high surveillance capability and can operate as a Comms platform and co-ordination centre.

E-3D Sentry AEW1
Roles

The Sentry’s roles include air and sea surveillance, airborne command and control, weapons control and it can also operate as an extensive communications platform.
Specifications

   Engines: Four CFM 56 2A-3 turbofans
   Thrust: 24,000lbs each
   Max speed: 460kts
   Length: 46.68m
   Max altitude: 35,000ft
   Span: 44.98m
   Aircrew: 18



8 Squadron
   RAF Waddington

Details

The RAF operates seven E-3D Sentry aircraft in the airborne surveillance and command-and-control role. The aircraft are based at RAF Waddington, where they are operated by Nos 8 and 23 Squadrons as the UK’s contribution to the NATO Airborne Early Warning and Control Force. The E-3D also forms one arm of the UK Intelligence, Surveillance, Target Acquisition and Reconnaissance (ISTAR) triad of Sentinel R1, E-3D and Nimrod R1 aircraft. Whilst primarily procured as an airborne early warning aircraft, the E- 3D has been extensively employed in the Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) role. The E-3D Sentry, known to the RAF as the AEW1, is based on the commercial Boeing 707-320B aircraft, which has been extensively modified and updated to accommodate modern mission systems. Mission endurance is approximately 11 hours (over 5000nmls), although this can be extended by air - to- air refuelling. The E-3D is the only aircraft in the RAF’s inventory capable of air-to-air refuelling by both the American ‘flying-boom’ system and the RAF’s ‘probe-and-drogue’ method.

The normal crew complement of 18 comprises four flight-deck crew, three technicians and an 11-man mission crew. The mission crew comprises a tactical director (mission crew commander), a fighter allocator, three weapons controllers, a surveillance controller, two surveillance operators, a data-link manager, a communications operator and an electronic-support- measures operator. The Sentry’s roles include air and sea surveillance, airborne command and control, weapons control and it can also operate as an extensive communications platform.

The aircraft cruises at 30,000ft and 400kts and its Northrop Grumman AN/APY-2 high-performance, multimode lookdown radar, housed in the black radome, is able to separate airborne and maritime targets from ground and sea clutter. One E-3D flying at 30,000ft can scan at distances of over 300nmls; it can detect low-flying targets or maritime surface contacts within 215nmls and it can detect medium-level airborne targets at ranges in excess of 280nmls. The multi-mode radar provides lookdown surveillance to the radar horizon and an electronic vertical scan of the radar beam provides target elevation and beyond-the-horizon operation for long-range surveillance of medium and high-altitude aircraft. These attributes allow it to determine the location, altitude, course and speed of large numbers of airborne targets. The aircraft’s mission systems can separate, manage and display targets individually on situation displays within the aircraft, or it can transmit the information to ground-based and ship-based units using a wide variety of digital data links.  

So we are not completely bereft of cover


Air to air refueling obviously can extend the endurance which is in the end goverened by the capacity of the toilet, (that’s not a funny comment, apparently it can get quite unpleasant up there double crewed for an extended mission)
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26/03/2012 19:19:37
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Rev. Roger Perry
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I don’t suppose the RNZAF still has one or two of those lovely Short Sunderland flying boats we could borrow?
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26/03/2012 23:05:22
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Gerard Grout
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Quoting: Rev. Roger Perry
I don’t suppose the RNZAF still has one or two of those lovely Short Sunderland flying boats we could borrow?
























If you get this going you can borrow it for a while.



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Pity for the guilty is treason for the innocent.
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27/03/2012 07:16:13
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Colin Davies
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not anymore Roger the RNZAF were the last operators of the Sunderland. I think there was one operating in the Fiji area for a while as an island hopper.
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27/03/2012 07:18:48
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