Forces Reunited
Current Members: 1,574,387  
 
 
    HOME    
FORCES WAR RECORDS
 FORCES SHOP 
FORCES DATING
FORCES DISCOUNTS

Community
  >> Search >> Home


You are not logged in. Click here to login or click here to register.

Turn off these pesky adverts! - What is this?

Forces Reunited - Scrap Harrier, Great Idea!
www.forcesreunited.org.uk >> General >> Hot Topic >> Scrap Harrier, Great Idea!
Forces Reunited Forums
>> Post New Topic
[1] 2 3 4 Next >>
AuthorTopic
Colin Davies
"Sit vis nobiscum."





Membership Level: Full
Posts: 1538
Status: Offline
Scrap Harrier, Great Idea!

UK aircraft carrier plans in confusion as ministers revisit square one

   From The Grauniad: (Richard Norton-Taylor)

   Britain’s troubled and increasingly expensive plan to equip the navy with new aircraft carriers has been plunged into fresh turmoil as ministers consider reversing their earlier decision to change the type of plane that should fly from them, it has emerged.

   The government announced in last autumn’s strategic defence review that it had decided to buy the "cats and flaps" (catapults and arrester gear) version of the US joint strike fighter. This would have a "longer range and greater payload ... the critical requirement for precision-strike operations in the future", the government stated.

   Moreover, the government added, it will be cheaper. It would also enable French planes to land on British carriers, and vice versa, inkeeping with the new UK-French defence spirit of co-operation.

   Now, in an extraordinary volte-face, the Ministry of Defence says the "cats and flaps" planes may well be cheaper but it would be too expensive to redesign a carrier – more than £1bn – to accommodate them. The ministry is thus faced with the prospect of renegotiating a deal with the US, reverting to its original plan – namely buying the short take-off and vertical landing version of the aircraft, even though it is acknowledged to be less effective and more expensive .

   The latest chapter in the troubled saga of Britain’s future aircraft carriers – whose own estimated costs have soared – was raised on Thursday in a letter to the defence secretary, Philip Hammond, from Jim Murphy, his Labour opposite number.

   Murphy referred to "worrying suggestions" that the government was about to change its mind about the kind of aircraft to buy from the US. "It is vital that there is now clarity on the government’s plans for this vital area of the defence equipment programme," he wrote.

   Murphy said the decision in the defence review to scrap the Harrier fleet meant the UK would have no carrier aircraft capability until 2020 – and then only one carrier would be operational.

   Defence officials said that the government was "re-assessing" its earlier decision because, they indicated, of pressures on the defence budget.

   HMS Queen Elizabeth, the first carrier, will be mothballed immediately it is launched in 2016, according to existing plans. The second, HMS Prince of Wales, will be able to put to sea by 2020, but it is not known how many planes will be able to fly from it – nor what kind.

   The two carriers, originally priced at £3.5bn, are now estimated to cost £6.2bn. According to the Commons public accounts committee, the cost is likely to icrease to as much as £12bn.

   The government, which originally said it wanted more than 100 joint strike fighters, says that it will have just six operational ones by 2020. The unit cost of the joint strike fighter, made by Lockheed Martin, has soared because of production problems and delays caused by US defence budget cuts. Britain’s BAE Systems and Rolls-Royce have big stakes in a future deal adapting the joint strike fighter for British forces.

   A spokesperson for the MoD said: "We are currently finalising the 2012-13 budget and balancing the equipment plan. As part of this process, we are reviewing all programmes, including elements of the carrier strike programme, to validate costs and ensure risks are properly managed. The defence secretary expects to announce the outcome of this process to parliament before Easter."

Maybe we could buy back the all Harriers we sold to the USA, on the cheap.
Report Post
25/03/2012 10:22:08
                                                   >> Edit This Post >> Quote This Post
Colin Davies
"Sit vis nobiscum."





Membership Level: Full
Posts: 1538
Status: Offline
The US Marines have bought al 74 of the UK harrier fleet and intend to keep them until 2025. A spokesman for the USMC stated that the aircraft is an excellent platform.

USMC knows a bargain when they see one, the MoD seems not to know elbow from bottom,
Report Post
25/03/2012 10:29:35
                                                   >> Edit This Post >> Quote This Post
Steve Greenwood
Add Forum Tag



Membership Level: Full
Posts: 1367
Status: Offline
It seems you have hit the nail on the head,Colin.
Successive governments are becoming less and less enthusiastic about our Armed forces and I can see the situation becoming critical when our forces are withdrawn from Afghanistan and whichever lot are in power will cast a jaundiced eye over the need for military power.  I fear that the country will be left to the USA to protect our interests.
Haven’t we been down this route before??

Live long and prosper
Report Post
25/03/2012 11:23:08
                                                   >> Edit This Post >> Quote This Post
Colin Davies
"Sit vis nobiscum."





Membership Level: Full
Posts: 1538
Status: Offline

Quoting: Steve  Greenwood
It seems you have hit the nail on the head,Colin.
Successive governments are becoming less and less enthusiastic about our Armed forces and I can see the situation becoming critical when our forces are withdrawn from Afghanistan and whichever lot are in power will cast a jaundiced eye over the need for military power.  I fear that the country will be left to the USA to protect our interests.
Haven’t we been down this route before??



Short answer ......yes, and look how much that cost.

Maybe I’m getting it wrong but, if we had a cat & flap system, VSTOL  aircraft could operate off it, so a role for harrier could have been kept, Although it has no ramp HMS Ocean could operate Harrier. I seem to remember some years ago a Naval Harrier making an emergency landing on a coastal freighter.

I would have thought that the Harrier was an ideal a/c for the Falklands, one well placed missile on the runway at Stanley the Typhoon is inoperable, whereas Harrier can land on  field if necessary, and be deployed just about anywhere,at short notice, no wonder the USMC snapped them up.
Report Post
25/03/2012 11:57:55
                                                   >> Edit This Post >> Quote This Post
Colin Davies
"Sit vis nobiscum."





Membership Level: Full
Posts: 1538
Status: Offline
1983.

Didn’t do the van a great deal of good, but the crew claimed £500,000 salvage.



View Attachment View Attachment
Report Post
25/03/2012 12:13:55
                                                   >> Edit This Post >> Quote This Post
[1] 2 3 4 Next >>
>> Reply To This Post
Moderated By: Murray Whyte, Edward Bishop,Bob Draper
Users Here:
REGISTER
LOGIN
FIND FRIENDS
MILITARY NEWS
CAMPAIGNS
REUNIONS
GALLERY
FORUMS
CHAT ROOM
REMEMBRANCE
HONOUR ROLL
TESTIMONIALS
MEMORIES
COMPETITIONS
ADVERTISE
MEDIA CENTRE
WHO'S ONLINE?
AFFILIATES
FAQ/CONTACT US
ABOUT US
BLOG
BOOKMARK US
HOME
Recommend this page to a friend.
Your Name:
Friends Name:
Friends Email:

This site uses cookies. For information on this, please see our privacy policy

About Contact Us Advertise Military Records New Members Terms Military Genealogy Sitemap